Hon. Nnena Elendu- Ukeje, represented the people of Bende Federal Constituency for twelve years, part of which she become the ranking chairperson of House of Representatives Committee on Foreign Affairs. In this interview with KEMI YESUFU, the articulate former member, who also was the official orator of the House spoke on the performance of the 9th National Assembly, the rejection of the gender bills as part of the constitutional amendment, the upcoming elections, Igbo presidency and the kind of President Nigeria needs come 2023. She also opened up on the recent attack on her country home.
You spent twelve years in the National Assembly, can we have your analysis of the 9th Assembly, looking in from the outside?
You know something, we fought for the autonomy of the National Assembly. There were certain things that we did, I recall a certain headline that said: “Coup at the National Assembly, Reps elect Tambuwal Leader”, that was the beginning of the emancipation of the National Assembly. Legacies of militarism and colonialism and so on and so forth, has suppressed , repressed the Nigerian political space. And because the National Assembly was always absent when there are military interventions, it took the National Assembly a lot of work to fight to have a space at the table. Even though they said there are three different but equal arms of government, the truth of the matter is that the National Assembly has to continue to fight for relevance within the political space. And Nigerians were quick to embrace a National Assembly that was at loggerheads with the executive, and I use the word “loggerheads” advisedly. Now, the reason I said that was because, the way the executive arm of government is situated in Nigeria with the amount of over- bearing powers the arm of government has- they control the military, the police, I mean the Exclusive list is fraught with all amazing things that props up the executive and strengthens it. Now, we(NASS), continue to have to fight for our space. So, because of that, there’s the impression that the National Assembly, once it’s on its back leg in disagreement with the executive arm of government, we become the darlings of the Nigerian people. Now, there’s also a saying that you can’t talk with a full mouth, the impression, ab initio, was that the leadership of both the House and Senate were darlings of the executive arm of government. Because of that, from the beginning, there was suspicion for that leadership. Let’s also not forget that there was a lot of rancour as well in the elections of the opposition….and so, if you recall, Femi Gbajabiamila as the opposition leader was very vociferous on the floor of the House, people don’t see that amount of fire anymore from the opposition in the parliament. They probably have their own style of doing things. But, you know, parliament is a place where the Nigerian people want to watch and hear you speak on their behalf. There’s also the saying, of course, that the opposition will have its say, the majority will have its way, but the Nigerian people want to hear the minority speak vociferously on their behalf about things that affect them. Unfortunately, that voice was not as loud as the Nigerian people want it. So, it would appear, should I say, that they have been emasculated by the ruling party. And because those voices are not loud, it gives the impression that the National Assembly is acquiescing. Unfortunately, leadership in the time of social media is difficult, things that other people got away with, people are watching government in real time, everybody has a ringside seat to government, and you know Nigerians are very opinionated people. And so, things that have affected the people, like the valuation of the Naira, the high inflation rate and so on and so forth, Nigerians are a bit more disenfranchised, and they expect a parliament that is whipping at government every day, but they don’t hear that. So, a lot of Nigerians are of the opinion that parliament is a little docile in the face of heightened poverty that a lot of Nigerians face. Let me also make a point that a lot of things have conspired to create this feeling of disaffection we’re feeling in Nigeria. Covid-19 has done that, Coronavirus caused a lockdown, loss of income, global devaluation and so on and so forth. It has created a lot of frustrations, poverty and anger within the polity. Of course, the insecurity has not helped, the trans-border crime, the movement of ISIS, the banditry and so on has not helped. Nigerians are yearning to see that government is coming up with actionable plan. They’re not seeing that from the executive and they’re not hearing loudly enough, the National Assembly condemning it. So, people are concerned about the strength of the National Assembly. That, I believe has formed the opinions. However, I’ve seen flashes of excellence. I’ve seen some very interesting bills passed in this constitution review, my Small Arms and Light Weapons Bill, I’ve seen them try to do something about it. I’ve seen them do something about devolution of powers in this constitution amendment in certain ways. I’ve seen some audacious pieces of legislation, but as with everything else, there’s room for improvement.
During a recent interaction on the 2023 election shown live on TV, you said electoral violence is keeping many women out of politics, not a lack of funds. Now, your country home was set ablaze, same for your cars. Did you envisage that you would be a victim political violence?
I wasn’t seeing a vision, it was real, it was a clear, and present danger. And I’ve always said it, this is one of the problems of not having enough women in the Parliament. Because have we had enough women in parliament, they would have been able to speak up against gender-based violence in the political space in the Electoral Amendment Bill. I think that those are very important. And I know that yes, poverty wears a woman’s face in Africa, especially in Nigeria. What we have is a political space, badly affected by a parochial, patriarchal society…. a misogynist society. At worst, people die. Already as it is, I’m in court for libel, I’ve been slandered and I say to people, the reason I went to court is because over time, you have these slurs thrown at you, and you continue to listen to people say, ‘oh, you’re a woman, that’s what happens’. No, that’s not what should happen. And for me, it was so interesting. A penny dropped, I had gone to some platform, and I was asked: what have you done as a person to keep the door open for other women. And I spoke to mentorship and all that, but the truth of the matter, is that going to court to challenge these sexual innuendoes and these slurs and disrespect will help get more women in because these insults scare them away. I have faith in the judiciary system and I’m hoping I get the relief I seek, so that it’s a deterrent to other people who say they can throw these slurs at women and nobody stops them. There is cyber- bullying. You open messages up and see all kinds of news, super imposed bodies on female members to paint in a bad light, that’s cyber bullying. Many times, these pictures go viral, and a lot of women just can’t deal with it, especially married women. In the words of Winston Churchill, “a lie goes round the world twice before the truth’s get the chance to put its pant on ” so, you find that a lot of women just can’t put up with that, and I was speaking about it, and I’ve seen the escalation of violence in the political space. In the Nigerian space, violence and politics are always talked about pari-passu. So during the televised interaction, I was sounding a note of warning that with the recent escalation, we’re going to see a lot worse as we go forth. I wasn’t in the house in the village, yet, people went into my house/ father’s house, burnt it down, burnt the cars in the house in the village, to act as a deterrent to stop me from even contemplating the thought of running in the next elections. Unfortunately, I don’t scare that easy….but can you imagine if it was not someone steeped in the political space, or someone who wanted to test the waters of the political space, she would go and never come back. The greatest deterrent for women is violence and the conversation s around this should be open.
Are you saying you’re running in 2023?
I find it paradoxical that I scream at the top of my voice on opening up the spaces for women and I want to walk away from that space. It’s leadership by example and I will be presenting myself again in the hope that the people see me as a fit and proper person to embrace in the next election.
The southeast as a geo-political zone has been agitating for a power shift, should power be taken to the east?
I think that there should be a shift, I think that people should be given the opportunity to aspire. There is this impression- and it is not unfounded- that the South-east has been marginalised. I believe the political spaces in the South -East should be open and big enough for the people to legitimately pursue their ambition to be President of this country, same as anybody. I think the South- East has a right. It’s interesting that when you listen to most of the advocates especially from the South-West and South-South. I’ve heard Pa Adebanjo and I’ve heard Edwin Clark, and I’ve heard quite a few people and they’ve spoken quite vociferously that democracy must be represented and it must be inclusive and I think that the South- East is more than eminently qualified to present people to be President of the Federal Republic of Nigeria and should be given the opportunity so to do.
What kind of Presidential candidate can the PDP present to get in back into Aso Rock? The speculations are that PDP will have the same lineup of northern aspirants with your your party throwing its ticket open, while that APC is going to allow the presidency go to the South?
I think the question should be, what kind of President does Nigeria need? In the words of Jimmy Carter, he said people will get the leadership they deserve, and I think for too long we’ve talked of leadership we deserve and it’s time to talk of the leadership we need. Everybody says Nigeria is a country of huge potentials but of greater challenges. People who are generous to us call us a fragile state, those who are not, call us a failed state. People have used expressions like: ‘Nigeria is on the brink’, ‘Nigeria is bleeding’. People have said things like ‘insecurity is taking over Nigeria’, ‘Nigeria is the third most terrorised country in the world’. People have said, ‘Nigeria is the poverty capital of the world” people have said all kinds of things. Micheal Moore says is the economy stupid? The kind of President we need is someone that understands the economy, somebody who’s been a unifying force. I think one of the greatest problems we have is that Nigeria has become so balkanised and Nigerians have fallen into our different cleavages in a way that there doesn’t seem to be any bridge for a rapprochement. We need somebody who is smart enough, who understands global politics; able to make Nigeria again the continental leader that we’ve always been; someone who understands the importance of engagement across board, a true leader, and I’m saying someone who is able to identify the potentials in people and bring them on board irrespective of where they come from. Someone who understands that there is need for there to be real inclusion, and someone who has the energy to rule this country. People in different fora have said- and its very uncharitable I believe- that they don’t envy whoever wants to be President of Nigeria in 2023 because things have gotten so bad, it’s going to take a lot of work to pull us back from the brink. The next president has to be someone who is hands-on and understand the issues, he has to be someone who is ready to roll up his sleeves from day one and address the real fundamental issues. I think, one of the important things also, he has to be someone that thinks outside the box, not someone who is conventional. And I’m talking about asphalt leadership, and I’ll tell you why. The reason why people think that China was so successful, was not because of the infrastructure and growth; it was because China was able to put things in place that pulled over 300 million of its people out of poverty. Now, when a country has a young, agile, ballooning population, what that country needs is a leader who has the vision to bridge the gap of inequality. That’s really what we need, someone who thinks outside the box, ready to engage and put us back on the map, someone who has the energy, the intellect to understand the economy, robotics, artificial intelligence, and just puts us on a path with a lot of discipline. Because, I believe there are so many places that are leaking. We need someone who is focused and has the vision that from the first day…luckily, there’s that piece of legislation that says they will have to appoint ministers within 30 days….We need a visionary- most people don’t agree with visionaries, but the policy is always better at the end. So, we need a visionary who is able to pull us back from the brink, unify this country, deal with insecurity, understand the nuances of the economy, and bridge the gap on inequality… Anybody who can do that will have my vote.
Apparently, the advocacy for the 35 percent affirmation for women did not work in this constitution review. Do you think it’s time to change tactics?
I think that for the first time, we’ve actually seen more gender champions than ever before. For the first time there’s been a groundswell, there was a lot of engagement, there was a lot of advocacy running up to this constitution review. The wife of the President was in the National Assembly, the wife of the Vice President sat on the floor with all her pomp and circumstance and this is the first time we have taken it beyond the rhetoric. We’ve been audacious enough to actually contemplate the legislation on extra seats. I think just by those acts of daring; we have done something different. Now, what do you think we can do differently? Unfortunately, from the voting pattern, we see its steeped in the age-old preconceived notion of what the picture of leadership in Nigeria should be, and so, it’s an entrenchment of negative values. I also ask the question, where did we copy these values from? Because ultra Conservative countries like Saudi Arabia for instance, has got 20 more women in the Surah Council making them 30, and that’s the topmost legislative/decision making body in Saudi Arabia. When you look at countries, for instance, like Sudan, its ultra conservative as it were, and yet, they have 40 percent of women in their parliaments. All the countries, Egypt have actually come up with temporary measures to try to earn quota systems and they’re looking at building up the number of women in their governance spaces. So, I think that we’ve done it right, and post this disastrous vote that went up two days ago, post the bad birthday present that they gave us (on the 1st day of Women’s month), ironically was a slap on our faces. Post that, we saw the spontaneous knee- jerk reactions of women across the country. Now, the age-old accusations that women are not women’s keepers has been challenged by these multi-faceted, multi-layered women’s groups who have come out and occupied the National Assembly. So, what can we do differently? I think we must continue to engage, but again, we must de-construct the narrative about, for instance, expanding the size of government, because what I found, is that people hear those phrases and parrot them without actually understanding the numbers, and I think what we need to do is break down the numbers, and tell the Nigerian people how much it expands government, just how expensive it is to the bottom line. For instance, what we are asking for is 219 seats. Now, of these 219 seats -if they were given 219 seats-first of all, in the National Assembly, 74 added to the number we have, we will still have 20 percent in the Senate, what they have will be 37 added to the number they have, it would be 30 percent. Now, if you look at those numbers with the state Houses of Assembly, it would be 219 seats. 219 seats each year will cost between 5 to 20 billion. At the rate of Nigeria’s 13.6 trillion budget, what is 0.515 percent of the national budget? So, what it does, is that it adds less than 1 percent to the bottom line. Now if what we believe is to be true and resolution 13:25 of the United Nation’s come up with that and we’ve seen that conflict resolution is easier with women at the table, it is broader, it encompasses more and is more sustainable. We saw that in Rwanda, we’ve seen it in so many post war countries, then you’ll realise that we’ve spent over N8 trillion on conflict in the last 7 years, and if all we’re asking for is N20 billion yearly, between 5 to 20 billion yearly , you cannot compare the gains of that. I think that we need to put those numbers out there and de-construct the narrative of expanding the government. And tell them as well that the 1979 constitution advocated 450 seats for House of Representatives and 5 seats for Senators, the Uwais Panel advocated 108 special seats for women. It’s a conversation that is ongoing. It’s nothing novel, it’s nothing new, we just need to explain to the people that this thing that everybody is parroting about making the size of government bigger and so on and so forth, is not necessarily true when it comes to granular terms.
So what role are you expecting women to play as far as 2023 elections are concerned?
Well, I think that the women are determined, in the words of Madline Albright: ‘Now that I’ve found my voice, I cannot be silenced’ and that’s the beautiful thing about being audacious. We’ve recognised and it’s not a hidden track that the women are the ones to vote. And I don’t actually think that the women are asking that you vote every woman on the ballot, but when people say, look at the women in the judiciary, they’re doing so well, what it points at is that the women in the judiciary are Nigerian women. And so, if they’re doing so well in that space, it means that ability is not the challenge. It’s the space that is the challenge. What we, the Nigerian women are trying to do is that, we were trying to break down those barriers in 2023 because we have shown that Nigerian women are competent in every sphere. In the boardroom, how many banks have been taken over by Nigerian women? The judiciary has literally been taken over by Nigerian women, so, it shows that Nigerian women have capacity. And I think that what it takes is for us to have a coalition that actually breaks down the stereotype that creates a barrier for the women, engaging the grassroots, letting them know that when you see a woman, she’s the candidate to follow. I mean we can do it, all we have to do is calibrate the narrative and sell it. It happened in America with the Pink wave and it happened in everywhere in the world where women are determined. And there is nothing that can stop the wave of determined women to do whatever they want to do. So, what I’ve seen with all the 200 groups coalescing in the National Assembly, is such a beautiful thing and can only get better. Like you rightly said, women are taking over the spaces. Last Friday, I looked at the diplomatic configuration here, the US Ambassador is a woman, the British High Commissioner is a woman, the Head of EU delegation is a woman, French Ambassador to Nigeria is a woman, German Ambassador to Nigeria is a woman.
EDITOR’S NOTE: This interview was conducted before the House on Tuesday, 8th March rescinded its decision to vote against the gender bills, specifically women becoming indigenes of their husband’s state after five years of marriage, Nigerian women’s foreign husbands acquiring citizenship through marriage, 35 percent of positions for women in political parties and 20 percent appointive positions for women as ministers and commissioners.
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